On Tuesday 15 March 2011 17:22:22 johan [..] ... wrote:
> Below, the story of an Orocos newbie...
>
> What do I like to do? Get started with Orocos 1.x.
>
> What is my preferred environment? C++, Windows, Eclipse
>
> Is this realistic? I guess so:
> * Orocos has a 2.x version, so I suppose 1.x is super-stable and
> well-documented. * A first look at the site indicates that "RTT on MS
> Windows" is supported "out-of-the-box" as of 1.10.0. So, here we go...

With 'out-of-the-box', we mean that no source-level changes need to be
applied. Windows users might interprete this statement as 'having-a-
setup.exe', which is not the case...

>
> 1) Start from http://www.orocos.org/wiki/rtt/rtt-ms-windows.
>
> It indicates that 1.10.0 supports Windows out-of-the box, so that the
> work-arounds on this page are not needed anymore.

I clarified that page a little such that you click on the right link out of
these 4.

>
> Fine. Then what page should I follow? I guess the default installation.
> Hmmm... That one points explicitely to Debian, Mac and other *nix and to
> the previous Windows page. Seems like a circle.
>
> It also mentions the forums as a source of information, so first let's look
> on the forum.
>
> 2) Looking for Windows on the forum
>
> Click on forum, then search... euh... how?
> Ah, there is a search box on the top right corner.
> Type Windows and "search"...
>
> Hmmm... Seems to search the full site, bugzilla, etc...

Our forum is searchable, but you need to use the 'Advanced search' options
when looking at your search results. I have toggled the website such that
these options are always shown. I also added a search block on the forum
overview, which only searches forum items. I tried adding the 'type:forum'
during the submit using a javascript, but that didn't work out.. beats me :-)

>
> First match: bug about the initial port to Cygwin... will be outdated for
> me. It was supported out-of-the-box by now.
>
> Aha 4th match: "Compiling on Windows with Visual Studio" seems close to
> what I need. The others (a user doesn't read further than 5 pages) don't
> seem to be what I need, so let's take the 4th link.
>
> 3) Compiling on Windows with Visual Studio.
>
> Click... Oh, this seems to be one of the not-needed-anymore-workarounds.
> Tiens... But since I don't have any other suggestion, I'll follow it
> anyway. Again it is mentioned that 1.10.0 is the base required version,
> but there seems to be at least a 1.12 as wel.
>
> Ok. this upgrades my expectations to 1.12 or higher ;-)
>
> 4) Corba support is optional, so skip it. I don't need it anyway.
>
> 5) Boost
>
> Seems I need _at least_ boost 1.36.0.
> Hmmm... 1.46.1 is the latest for now. Will there be any major API changes
> between 1.36 and 1.46? Don't know... Risky. The document suggests: "We
> recommend boost 1.40.0", so let me stick to that.
>
> Oh nice, pre-built stuff: click http://www.boost-pro.com/download... Hmmm..
> http 404

This link has been fixed.

>
> Extract the downloaded zip to my dev directory
> C:\local\dev\oroscos\boost_1_40_0. Follow build instructions.
> Add the path (with stage/lib instead of the specified /lib). Done.
>
> 6) cmake
> Version 2.8.4 seems to be the current one, but the site mentions 2.6.3 so
> play it on the safe side...
>
> First I need to add two path entries to a copy of the
> orocos-rtt.default.cmake. Euh, what rtt.default.cmake? I don't have any
> Orocos files yet.
> --- Interrupt ---

So we should start the page with 'download RTT here' ?

>
> 7) Get Orocos (at least 1.12)
>
> Ok, where can I get it? Go to Orocos's main page.
> Nope, no download button.
> Toolchain? Nope only 2.x. KDL, BFL nope seems something else.

RTT is part of the Orocos toolchain, as we try to explain on the Toolchain
page. We redid the design to lead people as much as possible to 2.x pages. The
toolchain page does link to the RTT main page, which explains that it's there
for 1.x users.

>
> Hey, by coincidence I see a link to the official Orocos SVN repository.
> let's try that one.
> I guess I need RTT although I'm not sure (I'm a newbie, remember...)
>
> Euh. In the tags I can find 1.4 to 1.6, then orocos-0.10.0 to 0.24.0, then
> orocos-rtt- till 1.8 and rtt-1.10.2. No 1.12 or higher. Tiens...
> Hmmm. there is a 1.12 in the branches, but is that a reliable branch?

We (the release scripts) were sloppy on creating tags back then. Sorry about
that. The rtt-1.x branches are very stable.

>
> Let's try again: Couldn't I just download it like any other product?
> Let's type "download' in the search box. Yes!
> A download link in the menu.
> v1.12.1 and even a manual! I should have found that earlier...
> Download, extract, put in c:\local\dev\orocos\orocos-rtt-1.12.1. Done.

The problem here is that you as a 1.x user, did not find the 'rtt' main page,
ie www.orocos.org/rtt . However, the Toolchain page points to both that link
and also the 'Older Versions' link in the 'Support' table, points to what you
are looking for.

>
> Take a look at the installation manual and look for Windows installation.
> Hey, just a pointer to "RTT on MS Windows"... been there, done that :-(

I'm glad all the links are pointing to the right place :-)

>
> Ok. I have Orocos now. Let's get back to cmake.
>
> 8) cmake cont'd
>
> Make a copy of the orocos-rtt.default.cmake and add the necessary paths.
> I didn't choose to use ACE/TAO, so I remove these. Also my boost path is a
> little different. That makes it:
>

> set(CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH \${CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH}
> "c:\local\dev\orocos\boost_1_40_0") set(CMAKE_LIBRARY_PATH
> \${CMAKE_LIBRARY_PATH} "c:\local\dev\orocos\boost_1_40_0\lib") 

There was an issue on the correct path names on Windows on that wiki page. The
backslash will not work. You must use c: followed by forward slashes. I
updated that.

>
> Ok, set the right paths in cmake and click "Configure".
>
> Oops, my Visual Studio 2010 is not in the list.
>
> Hmmm... Older VIsual Studio Express is not available anymore from MS.
>
> Hmmm... Let's try then to configure for Visual Studio 2008.
>
> Nope... it doesn't like that. He doesn't find VS2008, so he doesn't want to
> configure for that.
>
> Ok, next guess, upgrade cmake to current version: 2.8.4.
> Nice: VS2010 is now supported.

I clarified that as well in a new section on the infamous MS Windows wiki page.

>
> Oops:
>

> Orocos RTT version  (1.10.99)
> CMake Warning (dev) at orocos-rtt.cmake:20 (set):
>   Syntax error in cmake code at
> 
>     C:/Local/Dev/orocos/orocos_1_10_2/orocos-rtt.cmake:21
> 
>   when parsing string
> 
>     c:\local\dev\orocos\boost_1_40_0
> 
>   Invalid escape sequence \l
> 

Ack.

>
> Strange, boost doesn't contain a /include dir. So let's leave that away...
> The boost build indicated that the boot include dir was just the main boot
> installation dir, so that should be fine.
>
> Configure... fails.
>

> CMake Error at config/check_depend.cmake:56 (message):
>   Boost not found on your system.  See orocos-rtt.default.cmake
> (recommended) or set BOOST_ROOT.
> Call Stack (most recent call first):
>   CMakeLists.txt:85 (INCLUDE)
> 

I think I fixed this now as well. You could have done so as well since it's a
wiki.

>
> * Hmmm... Add BOOST_ROOT to the system path? Nope...
> * Request some extra debug from cmake? Nope...
> * Add BOOST_ROOT to the orocos-rtt.cmake just like the path? Nope...
> * Add it in the .cmake file? Nope...
>
> Well, well... after some debug, trace, coffee...
> * we hacked the check_depend.cmake to set(Boost_FOUND TRUE) in all cases...
> * we disabled the following parts:
> - BUILD_TESTING
> - ORO_OS_PLUGIN_LOADER
>
> Hehe... It says done... Don't know whether we really messed it up now, but
> we can generate our Visual Studio Solution...

Not finding boost is certainly not part of the usual process. I never had to
hack around this...

>
> 9) Visual Studio 2010...
>
> Load solution... works (showing the projects ALL_BUILD, dochtml, docpdf,
> docpng, docs, INSTALL, message, orocos-rtt-dynamic_win32, RUN_TESTS,
> uninstall, ZERO_CHECK)
>
> According to the doc, we should now "Build the 'check' target". Huh? Build
> a target in Visual Studio? Just try build all, the 'check' target will be
> somewhere in it, no? So, select Solution and then click "Rebuild
> Solution".
> Drink a coffee.

I updated this as well. The check target is being omitted if the boost testing
is disabled... We're recommending now to do ALL_BUILD.

>
> Oops, didn't have the chance to get my coffee. It already shows:
>

> error C2039: 'back_inserter' : is not a member of 'std'
> 

We encourage motivated users to submit patches for MSVS2010 :-D

>
> 10) Eclipse as an alternative?
>
> Eclipse was our preferred platform anyway.
> Let's try the Eclipse scenario.
>
> Some info found on http://www.orocos.org/wiki/rtt/eclipse, but that only
> shows how to make an application using Orocos on Eclipse. That's not what
> we are trying to do.
> We did see however that cmake also supports Eclipse targets. Would that be
> a way to go? Let's try...
>
> No Cygwin.... Euh install Cygwin now.
> Call cmake and chose the Linux build (although that doesn't really match my
> OS...). --> Ok, generates fine. Import in Eclipse, build. You get:
>

> target pattern contains no `%'
> 

Eclipse is not supported on MSWindows. I have no idea on how to do that in
combination with the visual studio compiler and generated solutions.

>
>
> Conclusion: this story could mean two things:
> * Or I am stupid (probably)
> * Or it is not trivial for any Windows user to get started with Orocos 1.x.
> Supported out-of-the-box is then a quite ambitious statement.
>
> Question: did anyone persist more than I did? Has anyone been running
> Orocos 1.x on Windows with VS2010 or preferrably with Eclipse? Would you
> also happen to have made a reasonable "how to"?
> I would be grateful :-)

There are clearly some issues with the website, and the wiki page was not
being fine either. Posting to this list was in the end the right thing to do.

Peter

Hi,

> * Or it is not trivial for any Windows user to get started with Orocos
> 1.x.
> Supported out-of-the-box is then a quite ambitious statement.

I also had to put quite some effort into getting Orocos running on Windows, but finally I got it working.

We are using Boost 1.42 (precompiled binaries, the boostpro server seems to be quite unreliable sometimes) and Visual Studio 2008. The precompiled binaries for 1.42 do not support VS2010. Furthermore, as you already mentioned, VS2010 includes some C++0x features that the orocos code seems not to be aware of (mostly the namespace is not specified enough). VS2008 works without problems.

I still needed some playing with the CMake options, but no changes to the CMake files.

I would suggest using VS2008, this saves a lot of trouble. The old version is still available at http://www.microsoft.com/express/Downloads/#2008-Visual-CPP

We are using the Windows version in an automated build process, once it is set up successfully there are no further problems.

Hi johan,

I had participate in the porting of orocos rtt under Window, and I have test
the 1.12 version. My Configuration are the following:

MSVC 2005 or MSV 2008 ( Nerver tried 2010)
Boost 1.40
CMake 2.8.2

I put comments after

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:22 PM, <johan [..] ...> wrote:

> Below, the story of an Orocos newbie...
>
> What do I like to do? Get started with Orocos 1.x.
>
> What is my preferred environment? C++, Windows, Eclipse
>
> Is this realistic? I guess so:
> * Orocos has a 2.x version, so I suppose 1.x is super-stable and
> well-documented.
> * A first look at the site indicates that "RTT on MS Windows" is supported
> "out-of-the-box" as of 1.10.0.
> So, here we go...
>
> 1) Start from http://www.orocos.org/wiki/rtt/rtt-ms-windows.
>
> It indicates that 1.10.0 supports Windows out-of-the box, so that the
> work-arounds on this page are not needed anymore.
>
> Fine. Then what page should I follow? I guess the default installation.
> Hmmm... That one points explicitely to Debian, Mac and other *nix and to
> the previous Windows page. Seems like a circle.
>
> It also mentions the forums as a source of information, so first let's look
> on the forum.
>
> 2) Looking for Windows on the forum
>
> Click on forum, then search... euh... how?
> Ah, there is a search box on the top right corner.
> Type Windows and "search"...
>
> Hmmm... Seems to search the full site, bugzilla, etc...
>
> First match: bug about the initial port to Cygwin... will be outdated for
> me. It was supported out-of-the-box by now.
>
> Aha 4th match: "Compiling on Windows with Visual Studio" seems close to
> what I need.
> The others (a user doesn't read further than 5 pages) don't seem to be what
> I need, so let's take the 4th link.
>
> 3) Compiling on Windows with Visual Studio.
>
> Click... Oh, this seems to be one of the not-needed-anymore-workarounds.
> Tiens... But since I don't have any other suggestion, I'll follow it
> anyway.
> Again it is mentioned that 1.10.0 is the base required version, but there
> seems to be at least a 1.12 as wel.
>
> Ok. this upgrades my expectations to 1.12 or higher ;-)
>

> 4) Corba support is optional, so skip it. I don't need it anyway.
>
> 5) Boost
>
> Seems I need _at least_ boost 1.36.0.
> Hmmm... 1.46.1 is the latest for now. Will there be any major API changes
> between 1.36 and 1.46? Don't know... Risky.
> The document suggests: "We recommend boost 1.40.0", so let me stick to
> that.
>
> Oh nice, pre-built stuff: click http://www.boost-pro.com/download...
> Hmmm.. http 404
>
> Extract the downloaded zip to my dev directory
> C:\local\dev\oroscos\boost_1_40_0.
> Follow build instructions.
> Add the path (with stage/lib instead of the specified /lib). Done.
>

> 6) cmake
> Version 2.8.4 seems to be the current one, but the site mentions 2.6.3 so
> play it on the safe side...
>
> First I need to add two path entries to a copy of the
> orocos-rtt.default.cmake.
> Euh, what rtt.default.cmake? I don't have any Orocos files yet.
> --- Interrupt ---
>
> 7) Get Orocos (at least 1.12)
>
> Ok, where can I get it? Go to Orocos's main page.
> Nope, no download button.
> Toolchain? Nope only 2.x. KDL, BFL nope seems something else.
>
> Hey, by coincidence I see a link to the official Orocos SVN repository.
> let's try that one.
> I guess I need RTT although I'm not sure (I'm a newbie, remember...)
>
> Euh. In the tags I can find 1.4 to 1.6, then orocos-0.10.0 to 0.24.0, then
> orocos-rtt- till 1.8 and rtt-1.10.2.
> No 1.12 or higher. Tiens...
> Hmmm. there is a 1.12 in the branches, but is that a reliable branch?
>
> Let's try again: Couldn't I just download it like any other product?
> Let's type "download' in the search box. Yes!
> A download link in the menu.
> v1.12.1 and even a manual! I should have found that earlier...
> Download, extract, put in c:\local\dev\orocos\orocos-rtt-1.12.1. Done.
>
> Take a look at the installation manual and look for Windows installation.
> Hey, just a pointer to "RTT on MS Windows"... been there, done that :-(
>

I used rtt 1.12.0 at
http://people.mech.kuleuven.be/~orocos/pub/stable/rtt/v1.12.0/

>
> Ok. I have Orocos now. Let's get back to cmake.
>
> 8) cmake cont'd
>
> Make a copy of the orocos-rtt.default.cmake and add the necessary paths.
> I didn't choose to use ACE/TAO, so I remove these. Also my boost path is a
> little different.
> That makes it:
>

> set(CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH \${CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH}
> "c:\local\dev\orocos\boost_1_40_0")
> set(CMAKE_LIBRARY_PATH \${CMAKE_LIBRARY_PATH}
> "c:\local\dev\orocos\boost_1_40_0\lib")
> 

I did not use any orocos-rtt.default.cmake, I just had to add
environnment variable BOOST and BOOST_ROOT to (
c:\local\dev\orocos\boost_1_40_0 for your case)

>
> Ok, set the right paths in cmake and click "Configure".

> Oops, my Visual Studio 2010 is not in the list.
>
> Hmmm... Older VIsual Studio Express is not available anymore from MS.
>
> Hmmm... Let's try then to configure for Visual Studio 2008.
>
> Nope... it doesn't like that. He doesn't find VS2008, so he doesn't want to
> configure for that.
>
> Ok, next guess, upgrade cmake to current version: 2.8.4.
> Nice: VS2010 is now supported.
>
> Oops:
>

> Orocos RTT version  (1.10.99)
> CMake Warning (dev) at orocos-rtt.cmake:20 (set):
>  Syntax error in cmake code at
>
>    C:/Local/Dev/orocos/orocos_1_10_2/orocos-rtt.cmake:21
>
>  when parsing string
>
>    c:\local\dev\orocos\boost_1_40_0
>
>  Invalid escape sequence \l
> 

If you are writting cmake code you will see that you need to put \\
instead of \ only for a "\".

>
> Strange, boost doesn't contain a /include dir. So let's leave that away...
> The boost build indicated that the boot include dir was just the main boot
> installation dir, so that should be fine.
>
> Configure... fails.
>

> CMake Error at config/check_depend.cmake:56 (message):
>  Boost not found on your system.  See orocos-rtt.default.cmake
> (recommended)
>  or set BOOST_ROOT.
> Call Stack (most recent call first):
>  CMakeLists.txt:85 (INCLUDE)
> 

As I said better set BOOST_ROOT

>
> The doc mentions that we have to set ORO_NO_ASM to ON for 1.12, but there
> is no ORO_NO_ASM.
> We see an OS_NO_ASM, but that one is set to ON by cmake in case of MSVC
> according to its output.
>

you are right, that was anoying to set it all the time

>
> * Hmmm... Add BOOST_ROOT to the system path? Nope...
> * Request some extra debug from cmake? Nope...
> * Add BOOST_ROOT to the orocos-rtt.cmake just like the path? Nope...
> * Add it in the .cmake file? Nope...
>
> Well, well... after some debug, trace, coffee...
> * we hacked the check_depend.cmake to set(Boost_FOUND TRUE) in all cases...
> * we disabled the following parts:
> - BUILD_TESTING
> - ORO_OS_PLUGIN_LOADER
>

Bad Idea, cmake use "FindPackage" files that search for library, you can
find them in C:\Program Files (x86)\CMake 2.8\share\cmake-2.8\Modules. The
name has the form findXXX.cmake so in our case it's findBoost.cmake

> Hehe... It says done... Don't know whether we really messed it up now, but
> we can generate our Visual Studio Solution...
>
> 9) Visual Studio 2010...
>
> Load solution... works (showing the projects ALL_BUILD, dochtml, docpdf,
> docpng, docs, INSTALL, message, orocos-rtt-dynamic_win32, RUN_TESTS,
> uninstall, ZERO_CHECK)
>
> According to the doc, we should now "Build the 'check' target". Huh? Build
> a target in Visual Studio?
> Just try build all, the 'check' target will be somewhere in it, no?
> So, select Solution and then click "Rebuild Solution".
> Drink a coffee.
>
> Oops, didn't have the chance to get my coffee. It already shows:
>

> error C2039: 'back_inserter' : is not a member of 'std'
> 

I never tested with msvc 2010, but I think it's because of problems
detecting boost. ( I hope). I you are sure that boost is correctly found,
try to correct the include

>
> Look for the issue on Google... It seems that VS2010 has breaking changes
> corresponding to this back_inserter.
>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2009/05/25/stl-breaking-changes-i...
> They suggest to add #include <iterator> in the appropriate headers...
>
> Not going to do that :-(
>
> Conclusion: Put Visual Studio path on hold.
>
> 10) Eclipse as an alternative?
>

Never try, I can't help you. If you are using cygwin, it's not the win32
compiler so it's an other game. Sorry.

>
> Eclipse was our preferred platform anyway.
> Let's try the Eclipse scenario.
>
> Some info found on http://www.orocos.org/wiki/rtt/eclipse, but that only
> shows how to make an application using Orocos on Eclipse.
> That's not what we are trying to do.
> We did see however that cmake also supports Eclipse targets. Would that be
> a way to go?
> Let's try...
>
> No Cygwin.... Euh install Cygwin now.
> Call cmake and chose the Linux build (although that doesn't really match my
> OS...).
> --> Ok, generates fine. Import in Eclipse, build. You get:
>

> target pattern contains no `%'
> 

I agreed with you, It's not easy for a newbie. However, the problem seem to
came from your bad usage of CMake. More than rtt it-self.

>
> Question: did anyone persist more than I did? Has anyone been running
> Orocos 1.x on Windows with VS2010 or preferrably with Eclipse?
> Would you also happen to have made a reasonable "how to"?

I would be grateful :-)
>

I have a how-to, but I'm not sure if I can broadcast it. Sorry, for the
moment at least..

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