Hello everyone,
for over 30 years our research center develops automated systems for
the inspection and repair of hydro-electric dams. We are seriously considering the use
of the Orocos library for our future projects. We believe that the work
of the 30 researchers in our division will certainly make significant
contributions to Orocos. Even if this contribution can improve
long-term viability of the library, the fact is that a certain
level of uncertainty remains in our organization. In particular, we have to
convince our managers of the seriousness of the library and the long-term
benefits.
I therefore seek your help to build my arguments. In
my view, one of the main arguments is that the submitted patches can then
be maintained by the community and not only by a single user (or company).
Another of the arguments would be to know the number of users and
whether there are companies who use the product in industry? Indeed, if
there are users who read this email, I would like to know these companies.
Thank you for your help!
Philippe Hamelin
for over 30 years our research center develops automated systems for
the inspection and repair of hydro-electric dams. We are seriously considering the use
of the Orocos library for our future projects. We believe that the work
of the 30 researchers in our division will certainly make significant
contributions to Orocos. Even if this contribution can improve
long-term viability of the library, the fact is that a certain
level of uncertainty remains in our organization. In particular, we have to
convince our managers of the seriousness of the library and the long-term
benefits.
I therefore seek your help to build my arguments. In
my view, one of the main arguments is that the submitted patches can then
be maintained by the community and not only by a single user (or company).
Another of the arguments would be to know the number of users and
whether there are companies who use the product in industry? Indeed, if
there are users who read this email, I would like to know these companies.
Thank you for your help!
Philippe Hamelin
Who use Orocos?
On Monday 19 January 2009 16:29:55 Philippe Hamelin wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> for over 30 years our research center develops automated systems for the
> inspection and repair of hydro-electric dams. We are seriously considering
> the use of the Orocos library for our future projects. We believe that the
> work of the 30 researchers in our division will certainly make significant
> contributions to Orocos. Even if this contribution can improve long-term
> viability of the library, the fact is that a certain level of uncertainty
> remains in our organization. In particular, we have to convince our
> managers of the seriousness of the library and the long-term benefits.
>
> I therefore seek your help to build my arguments. In my view, one of the
> main arguments is that the submitted patches can then be maintained by the
> community and not only by a single user (or company).
It's a matter of scale. I have the impression that today, smaller companies
(say R&D < 50 persons :-) see bigger benefits in using Orocos than large scale
companies. The former don't have enough spare resources to put them full-time
on 'plumbing' code.
We advise most (if not all) companies to contribute modifications back to open
source projects. 'Forking' from a code base (thus adding own modifications) is
a maintenance nightmare in the long term if you want to 'sync' regularly with
the origin.
In the end, you need to look at the mix of design and features. If both appeal
to your problem domain / machine architecture, you'll have a better reference
than any company using it for product X.
>
> Another of the arguments would be to know the number of users and whether
> there are companies who use the product in industry? Indeed, if there are
> users who read this email, I would like to know these companies.
Just looking through the mailing list archives gives a hint :-) There are
currently 56 persons on orocos-users, 100 on orocos-dev and 330 on 'orocos'.
I know of 6 companies (personal contacts) in Europe using Orocos in a product
or in development. I can not speak for them though.
As Herman pointed out, FMTC provides training (on a case-by-case basis though)
and is investing in maintaining and bringing Orocos/RTT to the next level. In
the past, I've always given the training. We're glad to give training, it's
one of the best ways in order to collect feedback from new users and adapt our
direction according to it.
Peter
Who use Orocos?
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009, Philippe Hamelin wrote:
something I forgot in my previous email: the cooperation between FMTC and
the university in Leuven is very intense, and takes place on a daily basis.
We have the custom to invite interested "partners" to visit the university
for some days, and talk to our (= FMTC and K.U.Leuven) developers and
users. And to discuss appropriate refactorings, extensions, documentation,
training, design decisions, ...
If your organisation wants to know exactly how the "Orocos ecosystem"
works, I suggest you send two or three of your research engineers to Leuven
for some days, and/or to invite one or two Orocos core developers to your
labs. We have done this many times in the past already.
Early April, there will be an Orocos tutorial on the EURON Annual Meeting
(in Leuven), which could be a good occasion to meet other Orocos users and
potential users in real life. (Participation is free.)
Herman
> for over 30 years our research center develops automated systems for the inspection and repair of hydro-electric dams. We are seriously considering the use of the Orocos library for our future projects. We believe that the work of the 30 researchers in our division will certainly make significant contributions to Orocos. Even if this contribution can improve long-term viability of the library, the fact is that a certain level of uncertainty remains in our organization. In particular, we have to convince our managers of the seriousness of the library and the long-term benefits.
>
> I therefore seek your help to build my arguments. In my view, one of the main arguments is that the submitted patches can then be maintained by the community and not only by a single user (or company).
>
> Another of the arguments would be to know the number of users and whether there are companies who use the product in industry? Indeed, if there are users who read this email, I would like to know these companies.
>
> Thank you for your help!
>
> Philippe Hamelin
>
>
Who use Orocos?
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009, Philippe Hamelin wrote:
> for over 30 years our research center develops automated systems for the
> inspection and repair of hydro-electric dams. We are seriously
> considering the use of the Orocos library for our future projects. We
> believe that the work of the 30 researchers in our division will
> certainly make significant contributions to Orocos. Even if this
> contribution can improve long-term viability of the library, the fact is
> that a certain level of uncertainty remains in our organization. In
> particular, we have to convince our managers of the seriousness of the
> library and the long-term benefits.
This is a perfectly understandable situation, and an opportunity for both
sides at the same time. We have had similar boosts in the past when a
new user with a long-term commitment and a clear vision on their future has
entered on the Orocos scene.
> I therefore seek your help to build my arguments. In my view, one of the
> main arguments is that the submitted patches can then be maintained by
> the community and not only by a single user (or company).
That is a much prefered situation. We are almost there, but not yet... For
example, Peter Soetens is still indispensable for the RTT parts (and many
other useful things).
> Another of the arguments would be to know the number of users and whether
> there are companies who use the product in industry? Indeed, if there are
> users who read this email, I would like to know these companies.
I know of at least two companies that have committed themselves to using
Orocos in their products. I leave it to them to contact you.
The FMTC (which hosts two major contributors, Peter Soetens and Klaas
Gadeyne) can provide you with more details about industrial use, and about
possible support contracts.
I am at the university (next door to the FMTC) and do not want to speak in
their name :-)
Best regards,
Herman Bruyninckx
Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm
Who use Orocos?
it's possible via the FMTC to pay for additional features in Orocos or
get training? We could possibly be interested to pay for the "dynamic"
of KDL and have a Windows version (with CORBA) of Orocos. Currently, we are not sure if we want to do these developments with our own programmers.
Philippe
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
for over 30 years our research center develops automated systems for the
inspection and repair of hydro-electric dams. We are seriously
considering the use of the Orocos library for our future projects. We
believe that the work of the 30 researchers in our division will
certainly make significant contributions to Orocos. Even if this
contribution can improve long-term viability of the library, the fact is
that a certain level of uncertainty remains in our organization. In
particular, we have to convince our managers of the seriousness of the
library and the long-term benefits.
<blockquote>
This is a perfectly understandable situation, and an opportunity for both
sides at the same time. We have had similar boosts in the past when a
new user with a long-term commitment and a clear vision on their future has
entered on the Orocos scene.
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I therefore seek your help to build my arguments. In my view, one of the
main arguments is that the submitted patches can then be maintained by
the community and not only by a single user (or company).
<blockquote>
That is a much prefered situation. We are almost there, but not yet... For
example, Peter Soetens is still indispensable for the RTT parts (and many
other useful things).
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Another of the arguments would be to know the number of users and whether
there are companies who use the product in industry? Indeed, if there are
users who read this email, I would like to know these companies.
<blockquote>
I know of at least two companies that have committed themselves to using
Orocos in their products. I leave it to them to contact you.
The FMTC (which hosts two major contributors, Peter Soetens and Klaas
Gadeyne) can provide you with more details about industrial use, and about
possible support contracts.
I am at the university (next door to the FMTC) and do not want to speak in
their name :-)
Best regards,
Herman Bruyninckx
Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm
<blockquote>
Who use Orocos?
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009, Philippe Hamelin wrote:
> So it's possible via the FMTC to pay for additional features in Orocos or
> get training? We could possibly be interested to pay for the "dynamic" of
> KDL and have a Windows version (with CORBA) of Orocos. Currently, we are not
> sure if we want to do these developments with our own programmers.
I cannot speak for FMTC, and I think they do not have infinite resources,
but such a shared development is a "Good Thing" for every open source
project.
The dynamics algorithm(s) are quite well understood by some developers,
but, as was mentioned already in some other threads, we have not decided on
the most appropriate API yet. My suggestion is to have a pure abstract
interface
ReturnCode InvDyn (KinematicChain, CurrentState, NewState);
for which several concrete implementations ("solvers") can be configured,
each possibly with its own set of properties (numerical tuning parameters,
maximum number of iterations, desired accuracy, ...)
All input in this discussion is very welcome. Now :-)
Herman
>
> Philippe
>
> 2009/1/19 Herman Bruyninckx <Herman [dot] Bruyninckx [..] ...>
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009, Philippe Hamelin wrote:
>
> for over 30 years our research center develops
> automated systems for the
> inspection and repair of hydro-electric dams. We are
> seriously
> considering the use of the Orocos library for our
> future projects. We
> believe that the work of the 30 researchers in our
> division will
> certainly make significant contributions to Orocos.
> Even if this
> contribution can improve long-term viability of the
> library, the fact is
> that a certain level of uncertainty remains in our
> organization. In
> particular, we have to convince our managers of the
> seriousness of the
> library and the long-term benefits.
>
>
> This is a perfectly understandable situation, and an opportunity for
> both
> sides at the same time. We have had similar boosts in the past when a
> new user with a long-term commitment and a clear vision on their
> future has
> entered on the Orocos scene.
>
> I therefore seek your help to build my arguments. In my
> view, one of the
> main arguments is that the submitted patches can then be
> maintained by
> the community and not only by a single user (or company).
>
> That is a much prefered situation. We are almost there, but not yet...
> For
> example, Peter Soetens is still indispensable for the RTT parts (and
> many
> other useful things).
>
> Another of the arguments would be to know the number of
> users and whether
> there are companies who use the product in industry?
> Indeed, if there are
> users who read this email, I would like to know these
> companies.
>
>
> I know of at least two companies that have committed themselves to
> using
> Orocos in their products. I leave it to them to contact you.
>
> The FMTC (which hosts two major contributors, Peter Soetens and Klaas
> Gadeyne) can provide you with more details about industrial use, and
> about
> possible support contracts.
>
> I am at the university (next door to the FMTC) and do not want to
> speak in
> their name :-)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Herman Bruyninckx
>
> Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm
>
>
>
>
--
K.U.Leuven, Mechanical Eng., Mechatronics & Robotics Research Group
<http://people.mech.kuleuven.be/~bruyninc> Tel: +32 16 322480
Coordinator of EURON (European Robotics Research Network)
<http://www.euron.org>
Open Realtime Control Services <http://www.orocos.org>
Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm